Downing Street Says

Asked if the Prime Minister was concerned about the backlash against the new five-in-one vaccine for young children, the PMS said that the Department of Health had given a briefing this morning in which they had set out the facts to this story. It went without saying that we wanted to protect children across the country. The developments with this new vaccine represented a positive evolution in the immunisation programme. Asked if she thought that the announcement had been handled well, the PMS said that there had been a lot of speculation as to how the details had emerged. As she understood it, the Department of Health had been in the process of briefing doctors in advance of an announcement that was to have been made on Wednesday so that doctors would be able to brief their patients immediately. Somehow the information had come into the public domain prematurely, which had resulted in some inaccuracies being reported over the weekend. Asked if the Prime Minister was concerned that scare stories would leave children unvaccinated, the PMS said that it was obviously important for parents to know the facts about the new vaccine. That was the purpose of the Department of Health’s briefing this morning.

Asked if Leo had been given his MMR booster jab, the PMS said that we had been round the houses on this issue on many occasions in the past. She had absolutely nothing to add to what had already been said about this matter.

29 Comments »

Sickening is what I call it.The goverment know`s full well the fear`s of parent`s.That they say there is NO danger does not matter AT ALL.What matter`s is the FEAR many parent`s have and therefore to help all these parent`s why don`t they say alright we understand your unfounded fear`s and will do single jab`s.WHY don`t they, SIMPLE it cost`s more money and they are putting money before the great fear`s parent`s have founded or unfounded.SICKENING.REALLY SICKENING.I also see that it has come out that MERCURY is in these injection`s we were not told that before!!! It`s the first time I have heard that and I have watch most of the debate`s on this.My God what sort of people are they.
Comment by george dutton — 10 Aug 2004 on 2:17 am | Link
"The goverment know`s full well the fear`s of parents"

I do believe, somehow, that this is part of the point: Fear. There are imaginary, unidentifiable fears like: MMR will turn my son into a vegetable.

There are clear, identifiable ones like: Statistically, single jabs result in poorer coverage of the vaccine, because those terrified, and terribly busy parents *miss* the required delivery schedule, as the ‘single’ jabs must be given over an exact period of time in order to be fully effective. Statistically, single jabs are more dangerous, introducing more pollutants over a longer period of time.

Parents don’t care about statistics; nor do they care that people just like them are who created those statistical truths in the first place. They have an irrational fear, and world-be-damned if everyone isn’t going to listen to them RIGHT NOW.

Point out where giving into paranoia becomes a *positive* strategy for dealing with this problem.
Comment by Gregory Block — 10 Aug 2004 on 8:31 pm | Link
They are politicians; what more do you need?!?!?!!!
Comment by PapaLazzzaru — 10 Aug 2004 on 10:26 pm | Link
Typical government mismanagement, that’s all it is. Of course they know parents are going to be fearful, they just haven’t got the wit to think it through properly before releasing details like this. Plus, they don’t care anyway – THEIR offspring don’t even know what the NHS is, never mind get their jabs from the NHS.
Comment by PapaLazzzaru — 10 Aug 2004 on 10:29 pm | Link
There are some saying multiple jab`s affect the body in a adverse way!.It cannot be proved or disproved! so until we find out we must play safe and give single jab`s.I see legal proceeding`s are starting in the U.S.A.over the mercury content in the MMR.Look`s like the British tax payer will have to fork out in the future ONCE AGAIN when we follow what is happening in the U.S.A.
Comment by george dutton — 10 Aug 2004 on 11:15 pm | Link
Does anyone *really* think that the irrational fear of the public is something that can be mitigated? How, when all it takes is ONE VOICE out of hundreds of reports to stir up the problem?

And yes, everyone’s seizing the mercury issue – which is pretty dumb, because the main reason it’s not in the five-virus jab they’ll be using isn’t because "Mercury Is Evil", or because the government wants to limit exposure to heavy metals, it’s because it can’t be used as a preservative with it. IT’S NOT EVEN IN MMR, FOLKS.

– Mercury is in Thimerosal, the primary preservative used in most vaccines, is about 50% mercury. It is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate; A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose.

– Humans are exposed to methylmercury primarily from the consumption of seafood (FDA report on Thimerosal, and other sources.)

– Acceptable safe exposures to methylmercury are varied: These exposure levels range from 0.1 \xB5g/kg body weight/day (EPA) to 0.47 \xB5g/kg body weight/day (WHO)2. However, methylmercury is NOT ethylmercury; this is not the same thing. People quoting this will invariably screw themselves and their calculations up.

– Several cases of acute mercury poisoning from thimerosal-containing products were found in the medical literature with total doses of thimerosal ranging from approximately 3 mg/kg to several hundred mg/kg. These reports included the administration of immune globulin (gamma globulin) (Matheson et al. 1980) and hepatitis B immune globulin (Lowell et al. 1996), choramphenicol formulated with 1000 times the proper dose of thimerosal as a preservative (Axton 1972), thimerosal ear irrigation in a child with tympanostomy tubes (Rohyans et al. 1994), thimerosal treatment of omphaloceles in infants (Fagan et al. 1977), and a suicide attempt with thimerosal (Pfab et al. 1996). These studies reported local necrosis, acute hemolysis, disseminated intravascular coagulation, acute renal tubular necrosis, and central nervous system injury including obtundation, coma, and death. (Institute of Medicine)

– One final piece of data regarding thimerosal is worth noting. At the initial National Vaccine Advisory Committee-sponsored meeting of thimerosal in 1999, concerns were expressed that infants may lack the ability to eliminate mercury. At the recent IOM meeting in Boston, data from NIAID-sponsored studies were presented that showed that mercury was excreted by infants into stools.

So. For the most part, all scientific literature points against the problem. However, that won’t stop people from focusing on the fact that Thimerosal isn’t used in the new jab.

Here’s more:

<a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal-vacs-facts.htm">http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal-vacs-facts.htm</a> – CDC website discussing Thimerosal vaccine
<a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nip/news/iom-thim5-18-04.htm">http://www.cdc.gov/nip/news/iom-thim5-18-04.htm</a> – Institute of Medicine report finding no link between Thimerosal and autism.

And from that same site: Measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR), varicella (chickenpox), and inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) have never contained thimerosal. Thimerosal IS used in the DTP jab. The whole argument’s a red herring in the first place.

People don’t even know what they’re afraid of anymore, and they’re too dumb to even bother getting off of their butts to educate themselves. Mass hysteria, care of Chicken Little.
Comment by Gregory Block — 11 Aug 2004 on 12:07 pm | Link
I have a lot of sympathy for the Government over this. They’re basically over a barrel. The whole idea of multiple jobs "overloading" children’s immune systems is nonsense based on a very lose analogy, rather than an understanding of immunology. The groups complaining are just plain anti-vaccination, and the media has a vested interest in scaring people in order to sell papers.

If the Government responds it just gives the story legs, more people become suspicious, and they end up in a deeper hole. If they don’t respond they give ground to the various nutcases out there. They’re in a lose-lose situation.
Comment by square peg — 11 Aug 2004 on 6:59 pm | Link
It is so sad to "hear" the hysteria in some of these postings. The government’s behaviour is hardly "SICKENING." This is a ridiculous non issue and uninformed parents are torturing themselves unnecessarily. I agree with the point above that the media are aiding and abetting this hysteria. What they should be doing is helping to educate people about the huge importance to individuals as well as society to immunize. This isn’t just the BBC’s job. And some of the programming in the name of open debate has been positively scandalous. There is no evidence at all that single jabs are safer. Have people forgotten the importance of herd immunity? Immunization is important for society and to insist on single jabs misses this point. And also ignores the financial implications. And yes this is perfectly legitimate for a national service. I guess we need some high profile middle class kids getting measles to wake people up? And that will probably provoke cries against the government for something that they did or didn’t do…
Comment by emac — 11 Aug 2004 on 8:54 pm | Link
The worst thing about all of this? All of these parents, whether they’ve missed or delayed an appointment on their single M M and R jabs, or just not bothered immunising due to F U and D are going to incur a bloody great epedemic at some point. Heads in the sand, they’ll wait until the obvious consequences of failing to immunize make it too late to do anything about.

Then the parents will cry that the Government didn’t do enough. People claim that "big brother" government is too involved in their lives, and when it all goes wrong, will point the blame at the state for not being nanny enough.
Comment by Gregory Block — 12 Aug 2004 on 2:59 pm | Link
When will some of these (so called )clever people that come onto this web site EVER get some common sense!.Do you not remember THALIDOMIDE do you not remember B.S.E. people like some of you said they were totally safe as well!.
Comment by george dutton — 13 Aug 2004 on 9:52 am | Link
George, people like you never remember penicillin, smallpox vaccine, or any of the other thousands upon thousands of medical advances that have been introduced and saved millions of lives. There will be mistakes, no system is perfect, but when mistakes are made we learn from them and improve our controls. I don’t see why we should abandon all attempts to improve things just because there’s a one in a million chance that it might go wrong.

By the way BSE has nothing to do with medicine? BSE came from Thatcher ‘slimming down’ government and reducing regulations on farmers. This let them feed their cattle on whatever they wanted to, including other cattle. A few stupid Ministers claimed that eating beef was safe but that was based on trying to save their jobs, not any medical evidence.
Comment by Uncarved Block — 13 Aug 2004 on 12:10 pm | Link
You miss the point!.As I said it should be left to parent`s to decide.We all know it`s about money,it`s called playing the odd`s.One child in so many thousand`s could be affected,equals a lot of money in extra cost.But there again I say parent`s to decide! society sould be saying if there the SMALLEST chance then we remove that chance if we can no matter how remote it is regardless of the cost. You say that people like me never remember penicillin,smallpox vaccine etc.Yes we do but not every vaccine give`s cause for concern!. I say even if it`s one child we should do all we can to remove ANY chance no matter how remote.As for B.S.E.as I recall it,it was not just Minister`s was it!.
Comment by george dutton — 13 Aug 2004 on 1:50 pm | Link
All medical interventions carry a risk.

The question is about balancing risks against benefits. These new vaccines have obvious benefits both for individual children and society as whole but I’ve not seen any research showing an elevated risk compared to individual jabs. Therfore the Government should promote these new vaccines and any parent with any sense would make sure that their children were vaccinated. This whole thread only exists because irresponsible media are trying to increase the perceived risk. This is not based on any evidence and they are only doing it for the purpose of selling more newspapers.

You always ask for FACTS, so where are your facts to support any increased risk to health from these new vaccines?
Comment by Uncarved Block — 13 Aug 2004 on 3:03 pm | Link
Good point about the media, but also don’t forget it was government mishandling of the original announcement that gave them that opportunity. What the government should have done was have some kind of promotional campaign (compiled by experts, not government flunkies) rather than just announcing, as they always do, "you WILL". That instantly gets peoples backs up and they have no-one to blame but themselves. They could also quite easily give the choice of the multiple jab and single jabs – and say to people – look, the multiple jab is free; if you want them individually you have to pay yourself. This, coupled with a campaign to explain the pros and cons of each would go a long way to allaying fears. Being high-handed with the facts and peoples emotions and fears gets you nowhere, as the government is now discovering to its cost.
Comment by PapaLazzzaru — 13 Aug 2004 on 4:25 pm | Link
Well the FACT`S that I have are seeing SIX children on the television before and after being giving the MMR vaccine!.Before normal after in a vegetated state!.The only common connexion "being giving the MMR vaccine".
Comment by george dutton — 13 Aug 2004 on 8:20 pm | Link
So you are now claiming that MMR causes a ‘vegetated state’. Well that’s new. Even the stupid press were only trying to claim that MMR was associated with autism but now you’ve come up with a new unsubstantiated wild claim.

George, if you want to find answers to scientific questions then can I suggest you look at scientific publications. You will then be able to back up your arguments with something more worthwhile than ‘I saw it on TV’, which seems to be your only source of ‘information’. You might be surprised to learn that spaghetti trees don’t exist either!
Comment by Uncarved Block — 14 Aug 2004 on 8:43 pm | Link
They bloody DO, you know – I was watching TV only tonight; I’ve been looking for a way to cut down on my bill for Italian food, and it seems someone has come up trumps…
Comment by PapaLazzzaru — 15 Aug 2004 on 1:12 am | Link
You of course have a record of disbelieving me.The case I saw was of a child in England (a boy) and the commentator said they were 5 other`s like this child. The child was sitting on a chair with it`s head on one side turned upward`s and not moving the parent had a video of the child before being giving the MMR jab,that showed a normal happy child.The commentator said the only common connexion between all 6 children that could be found was the MMR jab!.Yes autism is said to be caused by the MMR jab as well!.I must say you try and be extra clever (or think you are )by being your usually sarcastic self with your reference to spaghetti trees!.Some parent`s of children who think there child was affected by MMR might be VERY upset by your remark`s but then they might not you as I do!.It is a serious matter PLEASE try and treat it as such if that is possible.It does seem VERY strange that ever person that see`s thing`s in a way you don`t you call them stupid! or try and belittle them in some way or other.And once again you say I am claiming that MMR causes a "vegetated state" I did not say that,if I had said that it would have meant all children giving MMR were in that state and I KNEW that MMR cause`s this condition.I have NEVER said MMR causes any condition in any children, that I do not know!.When I say on this site FACT`S it is that I am stating FACT`S it does NOT mean that MMR is the cause of these children`s condition`s it may be that there is another reason!.It is once again you and other`s that read thing`s in your own way!.I am pointing out that parent`s and society should take on the responsibilty regarding people`s fear`s over MMR well founded or not.One last thing STOP saying thing`s about me that I have not said READ post`s on this site before writing UNTRUE THING`S about other`s.
Comment by george dutton — 15 Aug 2004 on 2:11 am | Link
I read on I.T.V. page 317 of the teletext service,page 7 of 7 the following."The chairman of the body which backed five-in-one inoculation for babies had his work aided financially by a firm involved in it`s manufacture"
Comment by george dutton — 15 Aug 2004 on 4:14 pm | Link
George this is a serious matter and that is why idiotic comments like yours make me very angry. I will go through this slowly so you can try to understand.

I asked you for facts to back up your claim that their was an increased risk from these new vaccines.

You replied that the \x91facts\x92 you had were seeing six children on television who were healthy before being given the MMR and who were in a vegetated state afterwards. You also claimed that the only connection between these children was that they had the MMR.

You are therefore claiming that the MMR caused this vegetated state \x96 if you not claiming this then why did you say that these were the facts I asked for to show the risk of the vaccines?

My reply was sarcastic because this type of media theatre is typical of the unscientific nonsense that whipped up this scare story in the first place. I asked for facts about the risks of the vaccines, not more scare stories from the media.

There is no evidence to show that there is any link between MMR and autism. The one person who made that claim has been shown to be talking nonsense. The only reason that people worry about it is because of stupid scare stories like the one you posted. It is people like you who feed the ignorance by repeating this nonsense and trying to give it credibility.

Stop believing everything you hear on television. If something sounds interesting do some investigation. This site is for people to discuss the issues of the day. Now one of those issues is about how the media operate and even the simplest of investigation shows that the media twist the truth and/or lie. Therefore George, when I or anyone else asks you to justify something you have said, we will not be satisfied with \x91I saw it on TV\x92.
Comment by Uncarved Block — 15 Aug 2004 on 5:32 pm | Link
Firstly the fact`s are that there is cause for concern that is a fact,that is what I was pointing out.I have NEVER CLAIMED anything!.I pass on what I have heard and seen.I do not know as I have stated on this site if any of these vaccine`s have caused these condition`s in children! .It is you that say I have!!!.READ THE POST`S!!!!!!.If anyone should be angry it should I think be ME.Saying thing`s like "idiotic comment`s" should not be addressed to me but to the doctor`s,scientist,etc that most of us have SEEN on (yes)the television saying there is a cause for concern.You MUST have seen it too or do you not have a television! it`s been on more time`s then I care to remember.Just last week two doctor`s were on T.V.A.M. before nine o/clock in the morning arguing the point.It was I thought at the time a good thing they were in different studio`s the way there were arguing.No all this is caused by what YOU read into what other people say that is clear from the above post`s above.
Comment by george dutton — 15 Aug 2004 on 7:33 pm | Link
And I don`t believe everything I see or hear from any source but I am just intelligent enough to know when there is a cause to be concerned.
Comment by george dutton — 15 Aug 2004 on 7:37 pm | Link
What is the cause for concern? You have still not provided any evidence that would be a cause for concern.

I don’t know about you George but I do not worry about something just because somebody else is worried or because someone tells me to worry. I look for evidence.

I accept that sometimes all the evidence I need is someone telling me it is so, because either I trust them or I don’t feel that they have any reason to lie. In the case of a scientific question I would expect to see some more evidence. As there isn’t any evidence of a link between MMR and autism I don’t see why I should think there is or have any concerns, no matter how many pop-doctors appear on television making unsubstantiated claims.
Comment by Uncarved Block — 15 Aug 2004 on 11:21 pm | Link
If it has not been proved to you by now that there is at least some cause for concern it never will be!.
Comment by george dutton — 16 Aug 2004 on 12:11 am | Link
It has not been proved to me because you still haven’t provided any evidence!
Comment by Uncarved Block — 16 Aug 2004 on 12:18 am | Link
Children yes children (not child) normal, given vaccine`s not normal! not all children just some.It could be something else! but still a cause for concern.In time it WILL emerge what the cause is.My money is on the vaccine`s but I don`t know! at the moment it`s just a cause of concern to me and a lot of other people.
Comment by george dutton — 16 Aug 2004 on 12:39 am | Link
To stir up some more controversy! does anyone remember a few year`s ago the W.H.O.or was it some other organisation saying that SMALLPOX had been eradicated from the world!. The only smallpox left in the world was in a glass container in a research lab and the debate was going on to destroy it all but some were saying that it should be keep as it may be needed for research purposes at a later date.It was only a few year`s ago.
Comment by george dutton — 16 Aug 2004 on 1:07 am | Link
It would be VERY NICE if all of you would consider downloading this site and really do something to help all of us and yourself.If you do BIG BIG THANK`S.
Comment by george dutton — 24 Aug 2004 on 10:54 pm | Link
Go to http://www.grid.org/download/gold/download.htm
Comment by george dutton — 24 Aug 2004 on 10:56 pm | Link

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