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	<title>Comments on: Beverley Hughes/Immigration</title>
	<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425</link>
	<description>Every day the Prime Minister's Spokesman meets a small coterie of political journalists known as 'the lobby' for a topical chat, or 'briefing'.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mr Average</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-697</link>
		<author>Mr Average</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-697</guid>
		<description>In respect of ID cards being used to track who is or isn't in the UK Owen Blacker wrote:

&#34;Except asylum seekers already have an ID card \x97 the Asylum Registration Card, which does involve fingerprint registration.&#34;

But that wasn't the point I was making. Ironically you've done exactly what TB warned the journalists about, conflated issues of asylum and immigration. Maybe TB knew what he was doing after all.

No one said asylum seekers were a problem when it comes to tracking them in and out of the country. One presumes that when they arrive their backgrounds are checked and they stay, making the UK their home.

Indeed the authorities should know more about their status than that of the indigenous population. Well, they should if they do their job properly but that's another story as the case of the Polish murderer proved just this week.

No, the problem of immigration is not one of asylum. The government knows, or should know, who these asylum seekers are. What they don't know is how many of the other migrants who come to the UK on visas (holiday, education, work) are also in the country.

While immigrants are checked on their way into the UK they are not checked when they leave. Many of them overstay their visas. It was apparent from today's briefing that TB has no idea how many immigrants are presently living and working in the UK.

This is not good news, particularly at a time of heightened security, and this weakness in the government's immigration policy will no doubt be exploited by other political parties.

To be fair to TB this weakness has existed for decades and TB will no doubt point this out arguing that if it was good enough under the Tories then it's good enough for Labour. But this is pure rhetoric and does nothing to solve the problem. Time to launch another enquiry. That usually gives the voters enough time to forget all about it.

Or so TB will hope. He's made more enquiries that Columbo. Regrettably he has yet to find anyone in government responsible for anything.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In respect of ID cards being used to track who is or isn&#8217;t in the UK Owen Blacker wrote:</p>
<p>&quot;Except asylum seekers already have an ID card \x97 the Asylum Registration Card, which does involve fingerprint registration.&quot;</p>
<p>But that wasn&#8217;t the point I was making. Ironically you&#8217;ve done exactly what TB warned the journalists about, conflated issues of asylum and immigration. Maybe TB knew what he was doing after all.</p>
<p>No one said asylum seekers were a problem when it comes to tracking them in and out of the country. One presumes that when they arrive their backgrounds are checked and they stay, making the UK their home.</p>
<p>Indeed the authorities should know more about their status than that of the indigenous population. Well, they should if they do their job properly but that&#8217;s another story as the case of the Polish murderer proved just this week.</p>
<p>No, the problem of immigration is not one of asylum. The government knows, or should know, who these asylum seekers are. What they don&#8217;t know is how many of the other migrants who come to the UK on visas (holiday, education, work) are also in the country.</p>
<p>While immigrants are checked on their way into the UK they are not checked when they leave. Many of them overstay their visas. It was apparent from today&#8217;s briefing that TB has no idea how many immigrants are presently living and working in the UK.</p>
<p>This is not good news, particularly at a time of heightened security, and this weakness in the government&#8217;s immigration policy will no doubt be exploited by other political parties.</p>
<p>To be fair to TB this weakness has existed for decades and TB will no doubt point this out arguing that if it was good enough under the Tories then it&#8217;s good enough for Labour. But this is pure rhetoric and does nothing to solve the problem. Time to launch another enquiry. That usually gives the voters enough time to forget all about it.</p>
<p>Or so TB will hope. He&#8217;s made more enquiries that Columbo. Regrettably he has yet to find anyone in government responsible for anything.</p>
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		<title>By: mikerbiker</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-696</link>
		<author>mikerbiker</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-696</guid>
		<description>Surely Bev Hughes should done a &#34;paper search&#34; for any possible danming letters/emails as soon as the threat appeared, or was the workload too much? Or was it a classic civil service ambush?...Whatever, she was told to fall on her sword to save Blunketts skin. 
  I cannot see that T.B will make much difference as hes a busy man what with domestic politics, and his evangelistic zeal to save the world. Lets face it T.B is more interested in his place in history than whether or not a one-legged left handed roofer from Transilvania gets a visa or not.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely Bev Hughes should done a &quot;paper search&quot; for any possible danming letters/emails as soon as the threat appeared, or was the workload too much? Or was it a classic civil service ambush?&#8230;Whatever, she was told to fall on her sword to save Blunketts skin.<br />
  I cannot see that T.B will make much difference as hes a busy man what with domestic politics, and his evangelistic zeal to save the world. Lets face it T.B is more interested in his place in history than whether or not a one-legged left handed roofer from Transilvania gets a visa or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen Blacker</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-695</link>
		<author>Owen Blacker</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-695</guid>
		<description>The previous poster wrote: &#34;The problem seems to be that we have no idea how many migrants are in the UK. We check them in but we don't check on them when they leave. It's a loophole that has been open for far too long and will probably be closed with the introduction of some kind of ID card, which is something else that TB said is back on the agenda.&#34;

Except asylum seekers already have an ID card &#38;#8212; the Asylum Registration Card, which does involve fingerprint registration.

And an ID Card won't solve any of these problems. Unless it's compulsory to carry at all times and the police are allowed to ask anyone to present it at any time (effectively, thus, victimising &#34;suspicious-looking people&#34; or, more likely, people with the &#34;wrong&#34; color skin), how would it make any difference?

ID cards seem to be seen as some ind of panac&#38;aelig;a for all society's problems, yet they won't make the blindest bit of difference.  Terrorism: all the 9/11 hijackers were carrying valid-yet-fake Virginia DMV licences; Illegal working: why would someone employing on the black market care about checking someone's ID card?; Immigration: we already have the ARC; Identity Fraud: so it'll reduce identity theft by giving everyone a piece of plastic that everyone trusts is foolproof (yet can't ever be)? I don't think so&#38;#8230;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The previous poster wrote: &quot;The problem seems to be that we have no idea how many migrants are in the UK. We check them in but we don&#8217;t check on them when they leave. It&#8217;s a loophole that has been open for far too long and will probably be closed with the introduction of some kind of ID card, which is something else that TB said is back on the agenda.&quot;</p>
<p>Except asylum seekers already have an ID card &amp;#8212; the Asylum Registration Card, which does involve fingerprint registration.</p>
<p>And an ID Card won&#8217;t solve any of these problems. Unless it&#8217;s compulsory to carry at all times and the police are allowed to ask anyone to present it at any time (effectively, thus, victimising &quot;suspicious-looking people&quot; or, more likely, people with the &quot;wrong&quot; color skin), how would it make any difference?</p>
<p>ID cards seem to be seen as some ind of panac&amp;aelig;a for all society&#8217;s problems, yet they won&#8217;t make the blindest bit of difference.  Terrorism: all the 9/11 hijackers were carrying valid-yet-fake Virginia DMV licences; Illegal working: why would someone employing on the black market care about checking someone&#8217;s ID card?; Immigration: we already have the ARC; Identity Fraud: so it&#8217;ll reduce identity theft by giving everyone a piece of plastic that everyone trusts is foolproof (yet can&#8217;t ever be)? I don&#8217;t think so&amp;#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Average</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-694</link>
		<author>Mr Average</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-694</guid>
		<description>As Mr Average I thought it interesting that TB avoided one question at least twice during today's press conference.

He was asked that if he thought Britain needed migrants, then how many migrants does Britain need?

It seemed a fair question given that to calculate spending on housing, health, education and any number of other services you have to know the number of people likely to use them.

Blair shrugged off the question as if somehow he knew that we needed more workers but that the exact number wasn't important. Or perhaps it varied with the seasons, like cockle picking.

The problem seems to be that we have no idea how many migrants are in the UK. We check them in but we don't check on them when they leave. It's a loophole that has been open for far too long and will probably be closed with the introduction of some kind of ID card, which is something else that TB said is back on the agenda.

The other problem is that Britain is currently exporting jobs such as call centres to places like India where people will work for less money. What then happens to the UK citizens who now can no longer work in that industry simply because a living wage here prices them out of the market?

You have to wonder too about what is so special about migrant workers. What skills do they learn in underperforming economies that the UK population seems incapable of?

TB never says we're in need of more au pairs, waiters or cleaners, jobs that the British have always avoided. He always alludes to professional skills, often in the building industry, nursing or computing. But again, what is, for instance, Bulgaria doing so well that the UK is failing at to have so many skilled workers who can't make a go of their own country but somehow can make a go of this one?

I have no problems with immigration but I am increasingly suspicious of a government that cannot explain itself without appearing contradictory.

It was fascinating today watching TB telling everyone to avoid linking the issues of immigration to that of asylum seekers. In fact the only person who linked these two issues was TB himself. Too much smoke and mirrors I say.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Mr Average I thought it interesting that TB avoided one question at least twice during today&#8217;s press conference.</p>
<p>He was asked that if he thought Britain needed migrants, then how many migrants does Britain need?</p>
<p>It seemed a fair question given that to calculate spending on housing, health, education and any number of other services you have to know the number of people likely to use them.</p>
<p>Blair shrugged off the question as if somehow he knew that we needed more workers but that the exact number wasn&#8217;t important. Or perhaps it varied with the seasons, like cockle picking.</p>
<p>The problem seems to be that we have no idea how many migrants are in the UK. We check them in but we don&#8217;t check on them when they leave. It&#8217;s a loophole that has been open for far too long and will probably be closed with the introduction of some kind of ID card, which is something else that TB said is back on the agenda.</p>
<p>The other problem is that Britain is currently exporting jobs such as call centres to places like India where people will work for less money. What then happens to the UK citizens who now can no longer work in that industry simply because a living wage here prices them out of the market?</p>
<p>You have to wonder too about what is so special about migrant workers. What skills do they learn in underperforming economies that the UK population seems incapable of?</p>
<p>TB never says we&#8217;re in need of more au pairs, waiters or cleaners, jobs that the British have always avoided. He always alludes to professional skills, often in the building industry, nursing or computing. But again, what is, for instance, Bulgaria doing so well that the UK is failing at to have so many skilled workers who can&#8217;t make a go of their own country but somehow can make a go of this one?</p>
<p>I have no problems with immigration but I am increasingly suspicious of a government that cannot explain itself without appearing contradictory.</p>
<p>It was fascinating today watching TB telling everyone to avoid linking the issues of immigration to that of asylum seekers. In fact the only person who linked these two issues was TB himself. Too much smoke and mirrors I say.</p>
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		<title>By: Lodjer</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-693</link>
		<author>Lodjer</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-693</guid>
		<description>&#34;Pro immigration... fascist&#34;? Isn't that somewhat of a contradiction in terms?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Pro immigration&#8230; fascist&quot;? Isn&#8217;t that somewhat of a contradiction in terms?</p>
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		<title>By: DEGREEK</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-687</link>
		<author>DEGREEK</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-687</guid>
		<description>As predicted, Bev has gone. Resigned for misleading parliament (albeit 'unwittingly'). 

All that spin and clever words couldn't whitewash the underlying incompetence and shambles.

How much better for TB it would have been if he had taken firm action himself instead of being forced into the position where he and Blunkett have been voraciously supporting her for days and days.

It just represents the lack of morality at the heart of government. There is one thing supporting your friends and cronies but you shouldn't be doing that at the country's expense. 

Shame on them

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As predicted, Bev has gone. Resigned for misleading parliament (albeit &#8216;unwittingly&#8217;). </p>
<p>All that spin and clever words couldn&#8217;t whitewash the underlying incompetence and shambles.</p>
<p>How much better for TB it would have been if he had taken firm action himself instead of being forced into the position where he and Blunkett have been voraciously supporting her for days and days.</p>
<p>It just represents the lack of morality at the heart of government. There is one thing supporting your friends and cronies but you shouldn&#8217;t be doing that at the country&#8217;s expense. </p>
<p>Shame on them</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Tattersall</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-686</link>
		<author>Hugh Tattersall</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-686</guid>
		<description>Well, pick the bones out of that lot. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, pick the bones out of that lot.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lightfoot</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-685</link>
		<author>Chris Lightfoot</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-685</guid>
		<description>&#34;Overall I don\x92t think its too alarmist to point out the similarities between the language used about asylum seekers in the press and by politicians and the language used about the Jews by the Nazis.&#34;
-- quite, especially given the Chamberlain government's shameful record on Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. This country bears a heavy responsibility for the scale of murder which the Nazis committed; had we had a more civilised policy on asylum then, many more might have been saved. Seen in its historical context, the current furore over &#34;bogus&#34; asylum seekers is, frankly, disgusting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Overall I don\x92t think its too alarmist to point out the similarities between the language used about asylum seekers in the press and by politicians and the language used about the Jews by the Nazis.&quot;<br />
&#8211; quite, especially given the Chamberlain government&#8217;s shameful record on Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. This country bears a heavy responsibility for the scale of murder which the Nazis committed; had we had a more civilised policy on asylum then, many more might have been saved. Seen in its historical context, the current furore over &quot;bogus&quot; asylum seekers is, frankly, disgusting.</p>
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		<title>By: DEGREEK</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-684</link>
		<author>DEGREEK</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-684</guid>
		<description>Hang on. Hasn't Brown just suggested shedding 40000 civil service jobs in his last budget. We have a mediocre system run by mediocre ministers in the main.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hang on. Hasn&#8217;t Brown just suggested shedding 40000 civil service jobs in his last budget. We have a mediocre system run by mediocre ministers in the main.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncarved Block</title>
		<link>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-683</link>
		<author>Uncarved Block</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://downingstreetsays.com/briefings/2004/03/31/425#comment-683</guid>
		<description>With a low birth rate and an ageing population we need more immigrants to keep this country going. Many immigrants have skills and are well educated and those that aren't will take up the low-skilled jobs that have been done by first generation immigrants for centuries. They should not be locked up in camps; they should be welcomed and given permission to take up work straight away.

There are more asylum seekers in the UK than there used to be for two simple reasons. Improvements in communications mean that more of the world knows that Britain is one of the richest countries in the world and they can make a better life for themselves here. Improvements in transport mean that it is much easier for people to get to the UK - their country of choice because, thanks to the empire, more people speak English than any other European language (other English speaking countries, such as USA and Canada, also get large numbers of asylum seekers). This, of course, must be put in perspective. The countries with the most refugees (UNHCR figures 2003) were Iran and Pakistan with the UK not even in the top 10.

The immigration service (along with other areas of the civil service) is overstretched and understaffed. For over twenty years the number of civil servants has been in decline and yet they are being asked to do more by politicians. David Davis showed the true hypocrisy of politicians by sympathising with \x91overworked civil servants in the immigration service\x92 in the debates about Beverly Hughes only one week after Michael Howard was vying with Gordon Brown over who was going to sack more civil servants. 

Overall I don\x92t think its too alarmist to point out the similarities between the language used about asylum seekers in the press and by politicians and the language used about the Jews by the Nazis. Its all about creating a culture of fear and hate \x96 it sells more newspapers, it gets more votes and it distracts from the real issues that people should be worried about (health, education, inequality, war, etc. etc.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With a low birth rate and an ageing population we need more immigrants to keep this country going. Many immigrants have skills and are well educated and those that aren&#8217;t will take up the low-skilled jobs that have been done by first generation immigrants for centuries. They should not be locked up in camps; they should be welcomed and given permission to take up work straight away.</p>
<p>There are more asylum seekers in the UK than there used to be for two simple reasons. Improvements in communications mean that more of the world knows that Britain is one of the richest countries in the world and they can make a better life for themselves here. Improvements in transport mean that it is much easier for people to get to the UK - their country of choice because, thanks to the empire, more people speak English than any other European language (other English speaking countries, such as USA and Canada, also get large numbers of asylum seekers). This, of course, must be put in perspective. The countries with the most refugees (UNHCR figures 2003) were Iran and Pakistan with the UK not even in the top 10.</p>
<p>The immigration service (along with other areas of the civil service) is overstretched and understaffed. For over twenty years the number of civil servants has been in decline and yet they are being asked to do more by politicians. David Davis showed the true hypocrisy of politicians by sympathising with \x91overworked civil servants in the immigration service\x92 in the debates about Beverly Hughes only one week after Michael Howard was vying with Gordon Brown over who was going to sack more civil servants. </p>
<p>Overall I don\x92t think its too alarmist to point out the similarities between the language used about asylum seekers in the press and by politicians and the language used about the Jews by the Nazis. Its all about creating a culture of fear and hate \x96 it sells more newspapers, it gets more votes and it distracts from the real issues that people should be worried about (health, education, inequality, war, etc. etc.)</p>
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